Fresh Fire or False Fire?
Jeff Fuller May 7th, 2008
I was recently told of a series of revival meetings taking place in Lakeland, Florida led by a guy named Todd Bentley. Coming from a pentecostal background, and believing in the continuation of gifts, I found it interesting to look over this man’s recent sermons to see what he is teaching. I’ve seen a lot of charismania in my lifetime so I wasn’t surprised by what I read in the transcripts of his weekly teachings.
Let me give you a little background. I was impacted years ago, and first introduced to this kind of intimacy, through the ministries of Benny Hinn and Kathryn Kuhlman. They opened the way for me to go beyond the power of God’s Spirit, the gifts or any kind of experience like the baptism of the Holy Spirit.As I look back, I can see that the person or presence of the Holy Spirit has become as real to me today as any man or woman would be anywhere I go. In fact, there are times when His presence is so real it’s as if a person is hovering over my shoulder. Or other times I’ll be walking along and I’ll sense His presence moving with me. I can feel it.
Now I want to ask you several questions. What goes through your mind when you think of the Holy Spirit? When you see somebody shake and fall down under the power, or when someone speaks in tongues, do you think, there’s the Holy Spirit!? Or when you see a gift of the Spirit, do you call it the Holy Spirit?
Actually, what you are seeing is the effect of the Spirit. But who is the Holy Spirit? I’m not talking about what He does—the Counselor or the Teacher. Who is He? Do you know what He feels? Do you know when He’s hurt? Do you know the emotions of the Holy Spirit? How much of the manifest presence of God’s Spirit do you know in your life?
For example, I know Him like I know my wife. There are times when my wife will just look at me and I’ll know what she is thinking. It’s like when you are in such close relationship with someone and you’re in their presence, you just know. Nothing is even said, you just know. So, how close are you?
Some of us think we have a relationship with the Holy Spirit; we can think of all the supporting scriptures and we invite the Holy Spirit to help us serve the Lord Jesus. We’re comfortable with the Father, we worship Jesus, and we pray to the Father in the name of Jesus. But there’s more.
The first paragraph of this man’s sermon tells me that this man is teaching a dangerous kind of intimacy, “They opened the way for me to go beyond the power of God’s Spirit….” Go BEYOND the power of God’s Spirit?!?! Wow, that’s a bold claim!
Sam Storms warns that “the pursuit of intimacy has often led people into unbiblical and dangerous waters and the possibility of drowning in a sea of subjectivity is very real.” Dr. Storms identifies 7 mistakes people make in their pursuit of intimacy with God, where men stray from the fact that we must pursue God within the parameters set forth in Scripture:
- It is possible, in our pursuit of intimacy with God, to allow our familiarity to degenerate into flippancy.
- It is possible, in our pursuit of intimacy with God, to fail to remember His transcendence by placing extreme emphasis on His immanence.
- It is possible, in our pursuit of intimacy with God, to lose sight of His holiness.
- It is possible, in our pursuit of intimacy with God, to overemphasize the subjective fruit to the exclusion of the objective foundation.
- It is possible, in our pursuit of intimacy with God, to fail to come to Him on His terms.
- It is possible, in our pursuit of intimacy with God, to lose sight of the distinction between Creator and creature.
- It is possible, in our pursuit of intimacy with God, to presume upon His grace.
It’s easy to see from Bentley’s own testimony that he has blurred the lines between God and man, speaking of the Spirit of God in a way that makes Him seem more of a buddy than a person of the Godhead. And he’s teaching outside the parameters of Scripture, though he briefly quotes singular passages throughout his sermons. I would call his focus that of radical application. What I mean is that his ministry is all about the application of Scriptures, leaving those who he is teaching without the context of what the Scriptures are actually saying to who the letters were actually written. Without that important foundation of context, there is no way for his congregation to know if the application he is teaching is credible.
For example, look at this reference from Ephesians Chapter 1 followed by Bentley’s application. Does he give enough of Ephesians to his congregation so that they can see that the text God has authored supports Bentley’s application?
Just look at what the Apostle Paul said in his prayer to the Ephesian church about our inheritance: “In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will” (Eph. 1:11). He goes on to describe three aspects in our inheritance: that we may know one, what is the hope of His calling; two, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints; and three, what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places (vv. 1:17–20, emphasis mine).
So, I’m not just focused on who I am in Christ, I’m focused on discovering who Christ is in me. In that discovery, I’m being drawn into a deep friendship with God in the secret place. That’s where I’m finding out more and more about the scope of my inheritance—for instance, reigning and resurrection power, and more. Conversely, if I was continually ignoring the Holy Spirit, even though I am born again and God’s word says I can enter the kingdom of God, I would not be in the right position to receive all of my inheritance.
Think about this. We can enter the kingdom of God, yes, but not everyone that enters the kingdom of God inherits the kingdom of God! The key to inheritance is intimacy and revelation and through this I know that, spiritually, I’ve been made a “king”. This is my spiritual status, to reign on this earth—and so I’m beginning to reign today! But, of course, without intimacy with God, I won’t have the reigning and resurrection power!
What’s more, what we gain as we advance and grow here, we take with us into eternity. Don’t miss this. The degree to which we faithfully act on the revelation God gives us, is the degree of responsibility that we will have in eternity. There are degrees; and this will affect our “brightness” in heaven. Every “star” differs in glory. We’re mistaken if we think that if we all ended up in heaven right now, we’d be equals; that somehow once we enter the pearly gates everything that I see, you see; and everything that becomes my experience, becomes your experience. Or that whatever we’ve done here doesn’t count.
I, for one, want to get to know God; I want to rule and reign in the universe and hang out with the angels. “God, can you create another planet with souls on it that need to be saved and send me there?” I want to talk about different things with Michael (archangel) and Gabriel (angel). “Come on Abraham! We’ve got to have a conversation about . . .” Heaven would be pretty boring if we just kind of showed up and said, “Here I am! Done!”
If you go to the text of Ephesians 1 you’ll find that Bentley’s application of the Scripture is skewed far from what Paul is communicating to the people of God. From reading several sermons, this is a trend. He’s clearly making this stuff up. If you don’t know the Bible, he isn’t giving it to you, so when you leave the meeting you are leaving with all this application that is just made up stuff with little to no biblical support. The snowball just gets bigger and bigger the more it rolls down the hill!
Recommended Resources
Dr. Timothy Beougher taught a James P. Boyce Society Lecture on the topic Theology of Revival. In it he gives a solid defense for revival along with a well balanced rule for judging genuine revival. A PDF handout outline is also freely available.
Engaging with the Holy Spirit: Real Questions, Practical Answers is a brief, reader-friendly book full of solid, reassuring answers by Graham Cole. One of the books endorsements reads, “Pneumatology has been sadly neglected in recent evangelical theology, and when it has been touched upon, it has trended toward either the speculative or the sensational. But here is a book on the Holy Spirit that is practical, relevant, balanced, and useful in the lives of God’s people everywhere. This book provides important grounding for a fuller theology of the Holy Spirit, and I commend it to all believers who are serious about the Christian life.”
To see a video clip from Todd Bentley’s revival meetings, go to The Puritan Fellowship website.
Todd Bentley’s unorthodox manner of ministry is not an indication of the power or the anointing of God on his life. His jerking movements and laughter too, as seen in this video could not possibly be of God. Where is behavior like this found in Scripture?
If a person reads Matthew 9:35, Luke 4:18, 9:2, these verses show us that Jesus preached the gospel to people first, then people were healed by the good news He had spoken.
When Jesus sent his disciples out, they were instructed to preach the gospel to people first . and healing would occur afterThe Gospel really should precede anything to people.
There are also instances where Jesus healed people and had not preached the gospel first. Those were instances of people who had come to Jesus asking for healing of someone in their household.
My point is that if God has anointed anyone with such a gift, why would they need to advertise it? Jesus didn’t, nor did the Apostles after His ascension.
Jesus’ primary focus of ministry was about saving souls. Healing is just an added blessing to a person because of the finished work of Christ on the cross.
Revival can come and will come, when the Body of Christ has united in prayer and fasting, to seek the Lord for His presence and power, to be seen, felt and heard especially among those who are unsaved.
Revival is not staged twitching of the body or an apparent physical exhaustion followed by an immediate rejuvenation of strength to walk as if nothing happened.
Revival occurs when lives are radically changed, where there is a greater demonstration of God’s power and presence in and outside of the church than by what we see happening in today’s church culture in society (seeker-friendly, emerging churches, etc..).
Revival happens because of the Gospel and those who are going into the world to preach repentance and remission of sins to people throughout all the world (Luke 24:47, Mark 16:15).
I think this article below, would be a better example of revival and what each individual Christian should do, to see its manifestation.
Thanks for posting this.
When God Stepped Down From Heaven by Rev. Owen Murphy
Hello brothers and sisters. I am the guy who has the site that the above article is from. I am a revivalist of sorts I guess but I simply call myself an evangelist. I have seem thousands saved and thousands healed. I have staggered under the power of God at times and at times not even felt it when healings were happening all around me. Yes I really do agree with the analysis above. God is Holy and Righteous and many who have gone into intimacy deeply have wrecked on the shoals of false mysticism. I love the mystics in many ways but there is no accountability for them. Count Zinzendorf of the Moravian brethren fell into foolish mystical thought but had the wisdom to pull away. Todd Bentley is a dear brother who has done the same I am afraid, but God uses flawed individuals, in fact I have it on good authority that is the only kind He uses. Pray for Him. Don’t cast the baby out with the bathwater either. Revival is different every time it comes, but there are constants too. Manifestations are not constants and every revival has had oddities. The constants are these.
1. Are the Lost saved?
2. Is the Church refreshed?
3. If healing occurs, does it last?
4. In a cultural revival, is the culture changed by the power of God.
Evan Wiggs
Evan,
Some of your points may be valid but do you agree that God has outlined in Scripture a way that he is to be worshiped?
.
No matter how sincere Todd may be it is clear from his teachings that he has gone outside of Scripture in what he calls “Revival”.
I was trying to chat in the room of the ‘king’ and have been blocked. So much for the truth. This is the false prophet spoken of in the bible…..Obama is the antichrist, a mindless human being that satan can control….and Oprah is the harlot. Lord help us all…….
[...] June 2, 2008 INTIMACY WITH GOD Here is a blog entry about the Florida Outpouring, specifically about Todd Bentley’s teaching. What I find very helpful are the 7 mistakes people make in their pursuit of intimacy with God, by [...]
Check out this link.
To see the man who wrote this, Justin Peters, check out “A Call for Discernment” by going to http://www.justinpeters.org. There is is giving a brief presentation/overview of his seminar on the WoF movement at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary…
At Southwestern, he did his thesis on Benny Hinn. Justin has cerebral palsy and concurs with the apostle Paul, “My grace is sufficient for thee.”
He spoke at my church last fall and comes highly recommended by my pastor, Dr. John MacArthur…
Hello Paul,
sorry about the late reply. I don’t know what you exactly mean by your query. Yes the scripture does talk about how we worship. In fact there are seven words used on the OT for praise and the one we are most familiar with is Hallel with is the beginning of Hallelujah. Hallel means to act totally crazy and rave for the Lord. We unfortunately put our culture into what we want in revival. We need to merely let God be God. Todd has gone extra scriptural in some cases and needs accountability to steer him back. His mystical leanings have become unhealthy and unhelpful. I pray for him that he might be restored if possible. When the Spirit touches we must let Him touch what He wants though.
God Bless you.
Evan Wiggs
Yesterday I went along to a meeting of Brent Brothwick(Fresh Fire) he is here in Scotland at the moment. Before I start I have never been involved in the Toronto blessing although I have seen it on TV. I believe and know God is going Move in the Nation of Scotland. That he is going to rasie up a people through this move of God that will touch the Nations these people that are going to be rasied up will live challenge and confront the powers of darkness in this generation. These people will be a people of victory.
Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that come off victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from the number of his name, standing by the sea of glass, having harps of God.
On one of the flyers that was going around for these meetings stated this.
Brent recently received a significant word from God concerning revival in Scotland and the UK and has altered his very busy schedule in order to be with us for this historic time in the history of our Nation
So of I went to see what was being brought to our nation and what is being taught to the people.
After the singing it was time for testimonies every single one was about Angels and seeing them. There was 7 in total.
Next Brent gets on stage he starts peaching about the Kingdom of God has come. The scripture he used was
Matt 3:2 Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matt 4:17 From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
This sounds good but the way he used these scriptures and twisted there meaning was wrong. He teaching was basically change your thoughts so you can think diffrently and live a different way of life.
Next one up
Eph 4:22 that ye put away, as concerning your former manner of life, the old man, that waxeth corrupt after the lusts of deceit;
Eph 4:23 and that ye be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
Again a teaching on thinking differently we are told to put our hands on our heads and asked for our minds to be renewed. The way truth is taken and twisted is so subtle.
All the while between scripture there all the stories of Angels. His personnel Angel is Gabriel we are told and he come to talk to him. That these things (seeing angles) are very common to him. You just need to open your heart and mind to them. Hence all the talk about changing the way you think.
Next scripture up
2Kgs 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, Jehovah, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And Jehovah opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
He started here with a scripture saying Elisha was man who lived in the supernatural. This is true Elisha he live in the supernatural this is a truth. But to use this verse to promote his teaching that you need to open up your mind to the supernatural is wrong.
We are spirit beings.We are spirit souls and body what we need is to grow in God and as we grow we become more aware of the Holy Spirit in us and get in tune with him.
I start to feel this precence in the building and start to pray. The preacher Brent has lost all train of thought he is standing holding his hand on his head. I have seen this before while watching the Toronto blessing before all the laughing breaks out. I am ready to run but stay cool and keep praying. He announces that his Angel Gabriel is standing at the back of the church he is angry and he Brent is sacred to look at him. He says he wants him to tell everyone about angels. Why? Is not Jesus the name that needs to be lifted up. Jesus the name above evry other name.
I keep praying the precence leaves and the preacher gets his mind back and there is no break out of the laughing.
On hearing this teaching and experincing what went on. I conclude that this so called fresh fire is promoting a door to be opened in the church to the occult. There is a strong spirit of divination, along with a strong spirit of seduction in operation. We as God’s people should have nothing to do with it and should stay away from it.
This man has brought a false move of God to my nation a false fire. He is decieved and is leading others into to deception.
Please Gods poeple don’t get involved in this fasle move of God wait and pray for God to send the real thing. Cry out for and groan and weep for it. He will hear our cries our groans and will come down to deliver us.
Colin
I get so sick of hearing about revival this and revival that. I have been to Brownsville. I prayed and asked God to show me if this was real or not. I believe that what I experieanced was real… BUT, I had a hunger for the Word of God like I never had before.
If you want real revival… Stop watching TV evangelist, read the Book of Acts, Ask God to move through you like it’s done in the Book of acts, and hit your neighborhood streets. Pray for people, when you’re shopping, relate biblical truths to everyday things, (Jesus and the Woman at the well.) He related living water to water in the well. Thank You.
My thesis is that there is a connection between the present “signs and wonders” or the “tongues” movement and Deut. 28:49. Read more here:
http://www.twoagespilgrims.com/doctrine/?p=358
Hi Paul, Jesus in speaking to the woman at the well, said we are to worship in Spirit and Truth. But there are seven words of Praise in the OT and they range from merely lifting of the hands to outright acting crazy for the Lord. That word is the Hallel of Hallelujah. I have been in many cultures where worship takes on many forms, many much more robust than we typically see here in the US. I personally like them much better too. I'm not sure why you asked me that question and even why you question the validity of the points. Are you speaking of the four points I use to see if revival is real of my attitude about Todd Bentley. Yes Todd fell into the Charismatic sickness in always having to have something new and out there and went outside scripture. I believe according to scripture he is living in an adulterous relationship and needs to leave the woman he is married to, see if his first wife Shoanna is willing to have him back or go celibate. Then the anointing may come back. But God is bigger than many think and can restore such a man, I guess we will see if Todd is willing to pay the price for that.